The Battle For The Centre.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by C_D » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:09 pm


ooops - the host tries and tries and tries...

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by jakell » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:09 am

I was left wondering who these six people are. At first I thought it was a poor attempt at a random sample, however six is far too small. From other clips it emerges that they are a sample of Trump voters who (possibly counter to the host's expectations), cleaved to a balanced view and were quite steadfast at expressing this.
I think the host is using the tactic that is so easy when addressing the Left ie an appeal to simple emotion (and to the general moral panic), but it doesn't work on these guys, possibly they've seen so much Trump hysteria up till now that they regard this as just more of the same. She tries to another appeal to emotion by using a particular clip but they very quickly identify it as something unrepresentative and outside of the main Charlottesville event.

Meanwhile, people are being stabbed for having 'fashy' haircuts and casual, incorrect doxxing:



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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by C_D » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:39 am

It's the blackmail by guilt-trip - using the extreme ideologies generated by a single system - that I find disheartening. I guess the American educational system is partly to blame for the inability of so many Americans to see beyond the faintest outline of a subject. Same goes for the UK, to a slightly lesser extent. It's much easier to manipulate based on an emotional response to fixed and repeated demons. Or in this case - the demon - Nazis! The taboo of Nazism is so strong in the West that it's difficult, nay impossible, to have a calm, rational discussion about it without being castigated, blackballed or attacked. I'd say it's the most taboo subject we have.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by jakell » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:37 am

It doesn't seem easy to manipulate these six people though.

Strangely, the host doesn't seem particularly fazed by this and, as you say, keeps on trying, so either she's a robot, she's stupid, or there's a bigger picture here.
The 'Trump voters' don't seem to be a random sample either, they are pretty solid and informed and I suspect have been selected (from a larger sample) on this basis - a standard coarse Lefty approach would be to pick 'hicks'. I'm wondering if this is a more subtle approach, ie to try to sway 'sensible' Trump voters by addressing the sensible types and not the low-brow ones. Whatever is at play, it's not working here.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by C_D » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:29 am

It doesn't seem easy to manipulate these six people though.
Yeah - and I know this may sound hackneyed - but there are always some sets outside of the statistical mean that have their own ideas, which are immune to repetitive reinforcement. Paradoxically, the repetetive reinforcement being transmitted by the mechanisms of State reinforces these 'rogue' sets in their belief that they are being manipulated and further strengthens their belief in the opposite! It's a Catch-22 that will always, given enough time to coalesce, lead to a binary position in which the entire society is dragged into having to decide one way or the other. Unfortunately, pigeonholing hundreds of millions of individual minds (which the system itself is promoting in its quest to remove power from them) into forced decisions i.e:

Person A - white, female, straight, pro-life, non-racist, pro welfare, anti-gun, pro-war, atheist, anti-gender reassignment, BLM, pro history
Person B - black, gay, pro-abortion, pro-gun, BLM, anti-war, religious, anti-history
Person C - latino, straight, pro-gun, proud of race roots, pro-life, religious, proud of America, pro history

and thousands of other variables - etc etc etc for every individual in the United States - who have, up until fairly recently - had the right to have these views and to live their lives according to them. Many of them have given little thought to Nazis until suddenly they are cast as such, because some of their thousands of internal tenets happen to align with the perception of 'Nazis' that the State is pushing. This is disconcerting for many people and will result in massive blowback. Trump.

It seems to me that the American Gods are using the taboo of Nazism as a talisman against any dissent (because, as it stands, the accusation of Nazism is the greatest weapon available to it, due to historical conditioning), to force through directives it deems fit. That the direction is towards isolation of individual within society gives a clue to what their end-state motives are.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by jakell » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:07 am

This post is more focused towards that elusive centre I opened this thread with. The centre can be said to be a virtual point that has no real significance, but when opinions get polarised by events (and behind the events ..the moral panic** that has been cultivated over a longer term), the centre is where the more reliable opinions and perspectives come from. I've come to regard Sargon of Akkad as a fair representation of this, particularly as he has lately tried to distance himself from what became labelled the skeptic community, something that pulled him a particular direction.
I'd also regard Tim Pool as a good centrist too, and here he is adding to the reporting of attacks on fairly ordinary people for sporting certain allegedly 'fascist' symbolic items:



It sounds a bit weak from the title, but the Polo shirt is just something in a line of alleged 'triggers' here and the actual aggression is more prolonged and unfocused (the only focus seems to be a determination to carry this to a conclusion, with no de-escalation). It's also notable that it's not obvious antifa types here, but other pretty ordinary folks of all ages who are either yelling "witch!", or responding to the yelling of "witch!", fencesitting seems to be becoming the braver option and it's understandable that folks who until recently would have cleaved to such a position would now be scared into taking a side. This video is a bit scary, not because it's particularly extreme or violent, but that the victim could be most people - not antifa or Alt-Right

Tim remarks at the end that folks around the centre are becoming labeled as far-right now. Both Tim and Sargon, along with a long line of other fairly vanilla characters have had this for a while now, but this has been against the background of general SJW absurdity and fairly easy to laugh off. Now this is moving more towards the general population, casual (but eventually extreme) witch-hunts come to mind.

** Trump/Russia over the last few months, but really boiling down to just Trump hysteria looking for something to latch on to..

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by C_D » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:09 am

I'm guessing this bifurcation of American society is happening due to the immense amounts of known - but unacknowledgeable - pressures.

For the individual, these include living inside a system that:
is a dog eat dog competitive race;
a generally war-based economy since ww2;
a society that values the use of force, not only amongst it's own populace, but also includes subjugation of foreign states to it's whim;
hungrily devours an entertainment complex that glorifies violence, torture and killing as normality;
has a crime and punishment system created and run to make profit;
has a healthcare system that bankrupts the ill;
has an educational system designed to keep the majority powerless and/or in debt;
views itself as exceptional - above all other humanity - and instills this in it's citizens, creating a severe paradox in which any opinion dissimilar to ones own internal dialogue is regarded as stupidity, to be dismissed;
had it's central pillar - the financial system - exposed as a sham ten years ago, yet continues to this day unchanged;
Is manipulated by an untouchable elite that few can even acknowledge exist;
has a constitution that applies to some but not others;
has free speech as a pillar - but with caveats;
has stagnated to the point of a loss of cultural development;
I could go on.

It's little wonder, really, that Americans - those that have these vague notions in the back of their minds as they go about their daily lives - are directing this incompetent rage (those that are prone to rage) towards targets that appear to represent aspects that are wrong with their society.

The System has played a blindingly good hand in nurturing the political meme that anyone who disagrees with it's intent - is evil. The brand of Nazism is an astoundingly easy slur to place on any dissenting individual - it carries an enormous amount of ingrained, historical ramifications and is one of the basic tenets of American education and ongoing indoctrination since WW2. The ultimate boogeyman to be weilded in times of crisis.

America needs to change, it's undeniable. The mechanism for this change, however, seems to be more likely scorched earth, fire and brimstone than considered thought. Some regret may be felt by all.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by jakell » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:49 am

Relating to the above focus upon American media, here is a surprisingly objective look at antifa (this time) on MSNBC:



As the video's title states, it's sort of remarkable that they are being more journalistic, but what strikes me more is the that this is only a recent reversal, after all, fairly blatant and easily accessible representations of antifa's methods go back to Milo's experience at Berkeley in February and, with a bit of digging, there's plenty more prior to that.
So, what they are saying is that "hey, we could do this sort of stuff all along, but chose to look in a different direction". To me this doesn't sound like journalistic integrity, but an attempt by the dying legacy media to do an end-run around its inevitable stagnation, by resetting their optics, rather late in the day, back to the centre.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by C_D » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:06 pm

The 'journalists' - especially the lady - seem to choke on the words in the intro as she has to read them out. Mind you, it's difficult for anyone to make immediate sense of what's happening around them when the sudden realisation of waking from a walking-dreamstate kicks in. So many of these journos have been caught up in the intense moments of exhilaration that virtue signalling imbibes - without fully considering the ramifications of the end-state that their support promises. Fingers crossed some sanity returns and soon.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by gods+lonely=man » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:52 pm

It seems like this is a apparent way to destroy all forms of descent and protest in america.
By demonizing the entire spectrum of political activists (left & right)that practice street level protest the TPTB are rigging the cultural perception making
it so that no one trusts,values,or wants to engage in it for fear of being caught up in association with these groups.If everyone that protests is seen as a liability or is discredited, all you will have left are armchair warriors.
I imagine that pretty soon the government will roll out some new laws further crushing 1st amendment rights to gather. Both sides are falling for this sadly.
The same problem->reaction->solution ploy that gave us the patriot act is now being put into use. *stirr* *ohdoh*

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by jakell » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:53 am

gods+lonely=man wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:52 pm
It seems like this is a apparent way to destroy all forms of descent and protest in america.
By demonizing the entire spectrum of political activists (left & right)that practice street level protest the TPTB are rigging the cultural perception making it so that no one trusts,values,or wants to engage in it for fear of being caught up in association with these groups.If everyone that protests is seen as a liability or is discredited, all you will have left are armchair warriors.
I imagine that pretty soon the government will roll out some new laws further crushing 1st amendment rights to gather. Both sides are falling for this sadly.
The same problem->reaction->solution ploy that gave us the patriot act is now being put into use. *stirr* *ohdoh*
I don't think the sudden outbreak of objectivity displayed in the above video is going to become standard, MSNBC are probably just doing a little experimentation here and even if some commentators start to get resolutely curious and verbose about such things (like Tucker Carlson for instance, who seems to be tolerated because the doesn't dig very deep), they can can be reigned in by one means or another.

The notion of two Satans, even though it useful concept (eg Steiner), is not a compelling enough archetype to parade in front of the simplicity seeking public, it also has the effect of encouraging people to think for themselves, so the usual simple binary is going to be preferred. The media companies have been in bed with the Left for too long to robustly condemn anything connected with it (and antifa are connected with the Left), although they may make 'noises'.
Antifa do not really represent Leftist activists who are really represented by a vast swathe of well-meaning SJW types who indeed are effective if only by clogging with large numbers or getting busy shutting down events** that even have a whiff of the Right to them, so actual "activists" are not being demonised at all. I would say that antifa will be separated from the Left first if they are going to be condemned in any meaningful way.


** I have recently speculated that SJW effectiveness has peaked but they have successfully managed to shut down a well planned event at Ryerson University (speakers: Jordan Peterson, Gad Saad, Faith Goldy and Oren Amitay) they've also been very active at trying to stop the 'Mythcon' event due to Sargon Of Akkad being invited to speak there, this has so far been unsuccessful though due to sensible organisers who refuse to be pressured.

(I've been trying to move away from using the overworked 'SJW' moniker, but it's too useful at present)

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by C_D » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:14 am

Just been watching Fox 26 Houston local news on youtube to see what's happening in Houston. The presenters don't seem like Nazis, but they're probably cryptos. I heard Fox news peeps eat babies? Whatevs.

It's all very serious - really, it's not nice for Houstonians - but the live chat feed on the right is perplexing. There are a bunch of trolls saying that everything is FAKE. The Events. The people. The sun. The sky. The rain. Space. The guys bald spot. The newsreader has glass eyes etc. Their persistance is legendary. It's inappropriate in this sitch, but some are shock-amusing. in fact, many of the comments are live commentary just taking the piss out of everything, including newsreaders, weatherpeople, what they're wearing, calling the females trannies etc etc

So, are they left-wingers mocking the right-wingers calling stuff fake, or are they right-wingers now calling Fox news fake, or are they centre grounders just bemused by everything and venting their frustration through mockery? Or just trolls?

I'm not sure why this channel enables live comments, when the vast majority are taking the piss / being unkind.
Maybe they're being stored for use in future prosecutions? I dunno.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by jakell » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:48 pm

I would simply call them trolls, although this is not a very elucidating label, a better one that is more descriptive is troublemakers.

The act of questioning everything looks like a valid position, it makes one look serious and thoughtful, but really this is just taking it to a pointless extreme. The question I ask is "do such folks bring anything to the party?" and far more often than not they don't, they leave it up to other folks to provide all the data and analysis and do all the work, and then simply naysay it all at a selected juncture.
Because they simply hoover up the products of other people and then apply a thin but predictable layer of 'skepticism' every time, I regard it as lazy and parasitical.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by C_D » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:20 am



I used to fear for what was happening in America - mainly in the interests of self-preservation, because what happens there usually has an impact here - but we're so much more stoic here in the UK that I can't see us ripping ourselves to shreds like the Americans - so I'm going to sit back, relax and watch the people that had it all, destroy it all. Once Antifa actually kill someone, the fun - that every American craves - will really start.
*p0pc0rn

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by jakell » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:46 am

C_D wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:20 am

I used to fear for what was happening in America - mainly in the interests of self-preservation, because what happens there usually has an impact here - but we're so much more stoic here in the UK that I can't see us ripping ourselves to shreds like the Americans - so I'm going to sit back, relax and watch the people that had it all, destroy it all. Once Antifa actually kill someone, the fun - that every American craves - will really start.
I feel slightly guilty about this, but not too much as most internet activity is voyeuristic, it just happens that this particular drama has a tangible physical distance to it a well.

In the UK we have one of the ingredients needed to start the above kind self sustaining firework display.. and that is antifa. In fact the Americans seem to have copied them pretty much from us. Back in the 80'/90's we had AFA which were basically a streetfighting organisation that needed the Far Right to sustain itself, once the BNP et al altered their tactics to something more subtle, they had no raison d'etre, they made a few attempts to carry on in a non-reactive role, but these quickly dried up. Antifa are in a similar situation, they are nothing without their traditional opponent.

An ingredient that exists in America at present is the Alt-Right who have given antifa something to chew on again, they have avoided getting lost in the general Rightist spectrum and it seems that other groups now define themselves in relation to the Alt-Right, in the flux of ideologies they have emerged as something identifiable.
The other ingredient is Trump hysteria, something we saw in spades after his election victory where myriads of 'ordinary' folks became screeching and chanting emotional puddles en masse and in public for weeks on end. This never really went away and it went underground as a lingering resentment that can easily erupt in violence once a target is identified and the aggression is 'justified' (it's ok to punch a 'Nazi'). These more labile people are a slightly more normie version of the SJW phenomenon.

In the UK at present we just have antifa - all revved-up no doubt, but with no place to go.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by C_D » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:49 pm

An ingredient that exists in America at present is the Alt-Right who have given antifa something to chew on again, they have avoided getting lost in the general Rightist spectrum and it seems that other groups now define themselves in relation to the Alt-Right, in the flux of ideologies they have emerged as something identifiable.
The other ingredient is Trump hysteria, something we saw in spades after his election victory where myriads of 'ordinary' folks became screeching and chanting emotional puddles en masse and in public for weeks on end.
The 'left' in America have a lot of perceived enemies though, right? They hate the far-Right. They hate Republicans. They hate the alt-Right. They hate their President. They consider the other half of Americans that voted anything but Hillary to be subhuman Nazis that need 're-education' - or removal from society. They hate the Russians. They hate White Man. They hate their own Police. They hate Racists. They hate Bigots. They literally cannot tolerate hearing anything but their own doctrines.

I think that a 'centre' is not going to be allowed in America. American Dream over at RI was the main pusher of these extremist doctrines and he was adamant that no 'centre ground' was allowed. I sincerely believe that an America under the leadership of an American Dream character will see internment and concentration camps on American soil.

When this eventually kicks off, it's going to be fascinating to witness - in a horrific, rubber-necking, can't-look-away, mesmerising bloodfest kind of way.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by BigEyeTenor » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:50 pm

gods+lonely=man wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:52 pm
It seems like this is a apparent way to destroy all forms of descent and protest in america.
By demonizing the entire spectrum of political activists (left & right)that practice street level protest the TPTB are rigging the cultural perception making
it so that no one trusts,values,or wants to engage in it for fear of being caught up in association with these groups.If everyone that protests is seen as a liability or is discredited, all you will have left are armchair warriors.
I imagine that pretty soon the government will roll out some new laws further crushing 1st amendment rights to gather. Both sides are falling for this sadly.
The same problem->reaction->solution ploy that gave us the patriot act is now being put into use. *stirr* *ohdoh*

Yes. It is so clear that this is the purpose of this nationalized Jerry Springer show.

It's so transparent that it was created by the media, deliberately.

I mean the "coincidence" of that Viceland doc coming out like the day before? How slickly that was produced?

How stupid are people that they can't see this? Oh right ...

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by jakell » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:35 am

C_D wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:49 pm
An ingredient that exists in America at present is the Alt-Right who have given antifa something to chew on again, they have avoided getting lost in the general Rightist spectrum and it seems that other groups now define themselves in relation to the Alt-Right, in the flux of ideologies they have emerged as something identifiable.
The other ingredient is Trump hysteria, something we saw in spades after his election victory where myriads of 'ordinary' folks became screeching and chanting emotional puddles en masse and in public for weeks on end.
The 'left' in America have a lot of perceived enemies though, right? They hate the far-Right. They hate Republicans. They hate the alt-Right. They hate their President. They consider the other half of Americans that voted anything but Hillary to be subhuman Nazis that need 're-education' - or removal from society. They hate the Russians. They hate White Man. They hate their own Police. They hate Racists. They hate Bigots. They literally cannot tolerate hearing anything but their own doctrines.

I think that a 'centre' is not going to be allowed in America. American Dream over at RI was the main pusher of these extremist doctrines and he was adamant that no 'centre ground' was allowed. I sincerely believe that an America under the leadership of an American Dream character will see internment and concentration camps on American soil.

When this eventually kicks off, it's going to be fascinating to witness - in a horrific, rubber-necking, can't-look-away, mesmerising bloodfest kind of way.
The 'centre' is probably best regarded as a virtual point as I said earlier, it's always going to be shifting due to those outside of it who choose to act, whether those actions are constructive or not.
To those who seek drama and who wish to project themselves onto archetypal conflicts of good and evil, the centre is going to seem dull and unstimulating, but perhaps this is a symptom of our present age where we have become desensitized to the extent that we place 'feels' above considered thought. It is this last why I suggest that we should value the centre, it is the place where the mind can rest and better perspectives can be found.

Here are two (opposing) characters who, between them, might well define that centre ground, and seem closer to it than most. They both do a very good job at valuing dialogue over their obvious differences and these are exactly the sort of differences that underlie a great deal of kneejerk conflict ATM. Sargon provides a good platform and does a great job of easing tensions, and Contrapoints responds positively to this, nevertheless, the tensions are there and not skirted around. A very good interview:



In a similar vein it's probably worth watching Ben Shapiro's appearance at Berkeley today.

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by jakell » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:56 pm

Even though the 'centre' is not necessarily the place one might wish to occupy ideologically, I regard it as the place where the best perspectives can be found, so for that reason alone it is worth seeking out.

Styxhexenhammer666 has recently been carelessly labeled Far Right in a pretty long and exhaustive article that lumps several other relatively 'lite' figures in the same category (curiously, Crowder is missing). I do find his perspectives quite refreshing though and he seems to take the long view in the field of politics which tends to go against the more frenetic trends that are predicted by most commentators. Most of my own projections are of the 'black pill' persuasion and I find it a relief to hear an intelligent alternative (as opposed to wishful thinking) such as that which is presented here concerning the future trajectory of the Far Left (@14:40), particularly considering the stranglehold they have on higher education.



"I think they'll fail......"

it doesn't work too well to highlight a particular snippet as Styx's 'flow' is as instructive as particular data points, but I realise that some will not watch a whole video. These two are quite contrasting characters and, although ideologically similar, have perspectives that differ enough to be entertaining.. I might be wrong but that doesn't seem to happen so much on the Left nowadays, who seem eager to cast out square pegs (or are afraid to express their own differences for fear of this happening to them).

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Re: The Battle For The Centre.

Post by C_D » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:39 am



I'm wondering if this guy opposite Sargon is AD from RI. It's cringe-making stuff, really.

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