Out on a Limb

[jakell]

I'm trying not to dwell too much on the extremes at present, it just tends to polarise perceptions and reduce nuance, so I thought I'd create a separate thread as a 'sandbox'. In the Battle for the Centre thread I tossed up the following rough diagram:

|----Neo-Nazis
|----
|--- Alt-Right (Broader than is commonly assumed
|---
|--- Alt-lite (deserves its own topic)
|---
|--- THE ELUSIVE CENTRE
|---
|--- The 'Skeptic Community'
|---
|--- SJW's
|---
|--- Hard Left, eg Antifa and associated cults such as BAMN
|---
|--- ???!!!

Even though the Right seems to me a lot easier to navigate than the Left, I've been frustrated by Richard Spencer's reluctance to create any clear water between the characters at the top here and the Alt-Right, even though I'm aware it exists. On the other hand, both the Alt-Right and alt-lite have had no compunction about disavowing each other, and there have been plenty of spats to demonstrate this.

It seems that the Neo-Nazis et al have decided to amend this by themselves and now we have a 'White Lives Matter' rally (or two) that appears pretty openly National Socialist in nature, with a sprinkling of other groups and random thugs to create some 'diversity'. As far as I can see there is no obvious Alt-Right presence here so either they are not welcome (apparently Neo-Nazis are not keen on them), or they are not inclined to be associated with such bad optics.
Whichever it is, this seems to open up the far-right end of the spectrum so if anyone feels motivated to look beyond the standard 'antifascist' vague handwaving, there is visual evidence available. Whether this builds into something more permanent remains to be seen but I find it difficult to take these as seriously as the Alt-Right.
I'm not sure of the exact political orientation of the channel that produced this video, but I would hazard that it is Conservative (he decries 'identity politics'). It also delves a bit into the history of the NSM with some comments on how the threat level is being exaggerated by mainstream media as well as the predictable 'antifascist' outpourings.

[jakell]

I was wondering where to put remarks relating to the 'Nov 4th civil war' (non)happenings as the demos mainly involved well meaning, but very-angry-at-something SJW's**, with a smattering of antifa wannabes. With that sort of vagueness, we have the potential for nastiness as well as for nothingness, as it turned out we got mostly the latter but that is unimportant as the lead up was firmly along the line of Saul Alinsky's 9th rule:

Rule 9
"The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.

Then I remembered that the whole shebang was initiated and managed by RefuseFascism and, due to them being Revolutionary Communists (antifa were mainly along for the ride, and to provide a menacing tinge), I reckon this thread is the place to park this in spite of there not being much to see.
I encountered what seemed to be the more central element of RefuseFascism on a SanFrancisco Livestream, and they had a well put together set of speakers where they (narrowly) avoided using the word 'communism' this time. Sunsara Taylor (the one who usually lets the cat out of the bag) wasn't there but I'm pretty sure I heard her engaging and energising the crowd on a New York livestream.

Speaking of "energising", the crowd are already pretty revved-up, so often just the right sort of push is needed, and the now ingrained chants are a reliable formula. For some strange reason though RefuseFascism have decided that some new chants are in order, and these tend to be longish and awkward, and not too popular with the usual shouters.. regardless of this the 'speakers' tend to keep pressing these relentlessly as if they have been prescribed. I'm reminded of my musings elsewhere about chants turning into scripted affirmations.
There has been an alteration to their plans though. They initially planned to have these demonstrations every day until the Trump/Pence Regime falls, but in various speeches some listeners learned that these are now to be once a week, so I can see the inevitable dwindling of interest already being managed. What will be worth keeping an eye on is the relationship between antifa and RefuseFascism, the former only seem to find solidity through confrontation and may start going their own way if demonstrations with scant potential for violence are all that is offered up.

** This usually suggests fired-up college type kids but, at New York especially, there were quite a few older folks. Possibly RefuseFascism taps into a broader demographic.