There seems to be a lot of fuss about the 45th President of the USA...

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C_D
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Re: There seems to be a lot of fuss about the 45th President of the USA...

Post by C_D » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:47 pm

jakell said
I try to give equal credence to the possibility that some things are not a product of 'the system', that they can happen organically and are not a product of 'control'. Another version is to credit anything and everything to the 'Deep State' and I'm starting to roll my eyes every time I hear that.
I call it as I see it. And I see that we live in a heirarchical system. The male or female is the boss of the house. The parent is the boss of the kids. If you work, you have a boss, who most probably has a boss. Any society has bosses all the way up and down. The law is also your boss. Courts are your boss. Rules are your boss. The authorities are your boss. Morals are your boss. Religion is a boss. Emotions are your boss. The fundamental rules of the Universe are your boss.

What evidence - circumstantial, observational or otherwise - can you put forward that supports your assertion that there are no bosses at the very top, when every other single aspect of every part of your life is overwhelmingly dominated by bosses?

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jakell
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Re: There seems to be a lot of fuss about the 45th President of the USA...

Post by jakell » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:00 pm

jakell wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:47 am
Styx's title might be a bit hyperbolic here, but he reigns that in with plenty of nuance in the actual video. I don't follow mainstream American politics very closely, but Styx does it pretty well so I don't have to get my hands too dirty, he was right about Trump last year and I tend to take notice of him.

Apart from Styx's observations here, it's noticable to even the casual observer that Trump hysteria has diminished somewhat and those who got feverish may even try to pretend that they didn't inhale. For an example just check out your local reliable Trump hysteric and take their temperature, they may even have moved on in search of fresher boogeymen.
Concerning this last, and in line with Styx's previous discussions of moral panics (on here) satisfying a particular psychological need, those Trump hysterics who are now finding his malevolence less triggering may find a new home in the antifa/SJW mindset, where the perception of evil is kept just vague enough (and with many sources) that it can't really be falsified.. there will always be Nazis under the bed - guaranteed.

C_D wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:47 pm
jakell wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:35 pm
C_D wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:56 pm
The System gave the malcontents a sop in Trump.

It's a simple play by the system - intentioned, but always fluid -
you're fed up with the system, eh?
ok - here's an alternative - he's a bit of a joke, he's still part of the system, but we'll make it look kind of as though he isn't, by pandering to a few conspiracy-minded topics - he hasn't got a chance, really - but it'll let us gauge just how many of you are actually pissed off enough to vote for any kind of change - fuck, he won! There may be trouble ahead.
but oh, he can't deliver any meaningful change because he's serving the system anyway - and you are realising you've been fooled
so - we'll make him look bad, very bad, worse than you could have imagined - we'll ridicule and debase him
make him the reason it's falling apart - and your fault too, you voted for him
nevermind the fact that our system is so rotten it's making many people mentally and physically ill
but ours is the only system that works and we're the smartest people in the room, we have the divine right to lead the herd
because you a herd, a herd of cattle with no direction without us
and soon, we shall offer you a bright, shining beacon that will seem to too good to be true - and it will be.
I try to give equal credence to the possibility that some things are not a product of 'the system', that they can happen organically and are not a product of 'control'. Another version is to credit anything and everything to the 'Deep State' and I'm starting to roll my eyes every time I hear that.

That's still a whopping 50% allotted to traditional conspiracy tropes, which isn't a bad slice, but allowing that some things may 'just happen' does free my mind somewhat from the old 'puppet-master' archetype that seems to me a little too tempting.
I call it as I see it. And I see that we live in a heirarchical system. The male or female is the boss of the house. The parent is the boss of the kids. If you work, you have a boss, who most probably has a boss. Any society has bosses all the way up and down. The law is also your boss. Courts are your boss. Rules are your boss. The authorities are your boss. Morals are your boss. Religion is a boss. Emotions are your boss. The fundamental rules of the Universe are your boss.

What evidence - circumstantial, observational or otherwise - can you put forward that supports your assertion that there are no bosses at the very top, when every other single aspect of every part of your life is overwhelmingly dominated by bosses?
I haven't asserted it, like I said I try to give equal credence to each possibilty. I think every hypothesis deserves an alternate one.

That's not to say there are no bosses, there are lots of them, but the degree of control is what I question. Introduce some random elements, and there is no control, just attempts at it that have varying degrees of success.

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C_D
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Re: There seems to be a lot of fuss about the 45th President of the USA...

Post by C_D » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:12 pm

I think every hypothesis deserves an alternate one.
But there's nothing hypothetical about what I said.

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Re: There seems to be a lot of fuss about the 45th President of the USA...

Post by jakell » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:22 pm

C_D wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:12 pm
jakell wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:00 pm
I haven't asserted it, like I said I try to give equal credence to each possibilty. I think every hypothesis deserves an alternate one.

That's not to say there are no bosses, there are lots of them, but the degree of control is what I question. Introduce some random elements, and there is no control, just attempts at it that have varying degrees of success.
But there's nothing hypothetical about what I said.
No, I'm referring to what I said, an hypothesis and an alternate one. I need the two in order to get some basic thinking done.

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